Post Reply 
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Replacement Rope for SOS
08-17-2014, 10:35 PM
Post: #1
Replacement Rope for SOS
Below is a email string relevant to the SOS rigging reconstruction:

Neil – Where are you getting these various source threads? I would love to pick up some of the heavier threads and experiment.

I am able to make right handed rope but it does require two passes through the ropewalk. Thread is typically right handed. This means when I make ropes with 2,3, or 4 strands those are left handed. Those left handed ropes are then used as the source for a second pass through the ropewalk giving right handed rope. The trick is getting a final rope that is the correct size and either left or right handed. For the Bluenose I focused only on size. The scale is small enough that right verses left didn’t seem like the right are to focus on yet. Leaving that for my next rigging effort. What is our motto “better done than perfect.” 

Here is a table that may help. I have been using a shorthand notation to help identify how to make the ropes in the inventory of the ships ropes. I have added that to the end of each line below in red. ‘ll bring my note book with me to the next meeting with samples of the sizes as well as a Bluenose rope inventory.


Source thread: 0.005” diameter, right handed. Call it right handed yarn. 30wt@1 (source thread is 30 weight)

Firs pass through the ropewalk.
2 strands of right handed yarn give: 0.009” diameter left handed rope. 30wt@2
3 strands of right handed yarn give: 0.012” diameter left handed rope. 30wt@3
4 strands of right handed yarn give: 0.017” diameter left handed shroud laid roped. 30wt@4

Second pass through ropewalk.
2 strands of 0.009” diameter rope give: 0.017” diameter right handed rope. 30wt@2x2
3 strands of 0.009” diameter rope give: 0.024” diameter right handed rope. 30wt@2x3
4 strands of 0.009” diameter rope give: 0.027” diameter right handed shroud laid rope. 30wt@2x4

Second pass through ropewalk.
2 strands of 0.012” diameter rope gives: 0.023” diameter right hand rope. 30wt@3x2
3 strands of 0.012” diameter rope gives: 0.032” diameter right handed rope. 30wt@3x3
4 strands of 0.012” diameter rope gives: 0.035” diameter right handed shroud laid rope. 30wt@3x4

Of course we can to a third pass through the ropewalk which would give rope that is left handed. I have not done these as they would be too big for the Bluenose. This would give:
30wt@2x2x2
30wt@2x2x3
30wt@2x2x4

30wt@2x3x2
30wt@2x3x3
30wt@2x3x4

30wt@3x2x2
30wt@3x2x3
30wt@3x2x4

30wt@3x3x2
30wt@3x3x3
30wt@3x3x4

And so on….

Of course using a larger source thread would be represented by a change to the “30wt” of the short hand notation.


From: Neil and Cris Hurwitz [mailto:neilhurwitz@bellsouth.net]
Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2014 10:25 PM
To: 'Ed Hulsey'; 'Chuck Letner'
Cc: davidsym05@yahoo.com
Subject: RE: blocks and rigging for SOS

Update 8/16 Made three more tests using Conso heavy duty nylon #69 .0192/strand ending with rope of .03125” (.8 mm), and DMC Cebelia cotton of.0263/strand with rope at .0474” (1.2 mm). All turned out nice but still I’m only able to make S cable (left hand lay). When I tried to reverse the direction of turning from clockwise to counter clockwise the finished rope unraveled and kinked up. Chuck, are you able to make the Z cable (right hand lay which is the most common type with your machine? I guess I can make cable laid (Z) if I use the smaller S diameter rope as the base threads and then make those into rope. I assume then I can go counter clockwise. More trials. So much for my Syren

Neil



Hi guys,

I agree, Chuck thanks for the rope making info. As I mentioned I have the Model Expo rope walk which is very cheap and easy to operate. But since it is hand cranked it takes some time. I took a stab at making rope last night. I made a rope about two feet long using YLI quilting thread which is 100% glazed cotton 40/3. This type thread was mentioned in the article I sent. I followed the direction given with the kit and ended up with a left handed rope. I will try again going in the opposite direction. In any event the thread diameter is .008” and the final rope diameter is said to be 1.8 times that or .014” Very small but it turned out okay for a first shot. Also used the color Ecru which is a neat color for running rigging. I will try some heavier thread and see how that goes. This particular thread by YLI makes a great rope with no fuzz. My attempt has some kinks in it, but getting the right tension and technique is a learning process.

By the way there is some very interesting information about all this and many other topics on the Model Ship World web page.

I agree a demonstration of the rope walks at one of our meeting would be great. We can show both.

All kinds of directions we can take. As Chuck says it is all about time.

Perhaps we need a sit down meeting where we hash it all out.
Neil

Cheers,
Chuck - Alpharetta, GA

Dry dock: Patrick Henry POF kit, HMS Elephant, 18th Century Longboat
Sailing the Ocean Blue: Flying Cloud, Bluenose
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
08-18-2014, 04:55 AM (This post was last modified: 08-18-2014 04:57 AM by neilh.)
Post: #2
RE: Replacement Rope for SOS
Thanks, Chuck. good info. My thinking was correct and confirmed by your post, needed to make left handed cable first then use that to make right handed rope. This time used J&P Coats cotton/poly standard sewing thread (.0156"; .4 mm) to make left hand rope of .0208" diameter (0.5 mm.) Then used that to make right hand rope of .035" (0.9 mm.) Looks good.

Just for fun, actually I needed a heavy piece of string, I took string that is used to seal cat food bags and made a 42" length of rope. The string measured about .0384" (.4 mm) and made rope of .0625" (1.58 mm.) It made a nice looking rope but fuzzy. After waxing the rope it looked quite good. As Rob Napier said, you can use what ever you need to make the rope.

Neil
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
08-18-2014, 09:04 AM
Post: #3
RE: Replacement Rope for SOS
Chuck, I don't have a thread source as I got some of it from another modeler a few years ago. Some is even older than that as it has a price of 35 cents. I did find YLI on the web and the exact size I have is shown.
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
08-19-2014, 10:55 PM
Post: #4
RE: Replacement Rope for SOS
(08-18-2014 09:04 AM)neilh Wrote:  Chuck, I don't have a thread source as I got some of it from another modeler a few years ago. Some is even older than that as it has a price of 35 cents. I did find YLI on the web and the exact size I have is shown.
I'll start looing for source of various sizes and post those as I find them...

Cheers,
Chuck - Alpharetta, GA

Dry dock: Patrick Henry POF kit, HMS Elephant, 18th Century Longboat
Sailing the Ocean Blue: Flying Cloud, Bluenose
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
08-21-2014, 07:35 AM
Post: #5
RE: Replacement Rope for SOS
I looked at threads in our local Hobby Lobby and all they have is Coats thread. Haven't tried any of it, though.
Neil
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
08-21-2014, 09:00 PM
Post: #6
RE: Replacement Rope for SOS
Coats is all I could find locally that had any selection. That is what I am using for the Bluenose....

Cheers,
Chuck - Alpharetta, GA

Dry dock: Patrick Henry POF kit, HMS Elephant, 18th Century Longboat
Sailing the Ocean Blue: Flying Cloud, Bluenose
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
08-21-2014, 10:02 PM
Post: #7
RE: Replacement Rope for SOS
Just checked out the YLI web site - they have loads of threads. Looking online I found the following as a place I plan to go and see what they have.

Ashby's Sewing Machine Co. 2990 Canton Rd. 30066 770-427-9947 Quilting,
Decorative Threads

2255 Old 41 HWY NW, Ste 140
Kennesaw, GA 30144
(770) 427-9947

Ashbys seems to have a large selection of threads based on their web site. More to come...

Cheers,
Chuck - Alpharetta, GA

Dry dock: Patrick Henry POF kit, HMS Elephant, 18th Century Longboat
Sailing the Ocean Blue: Flying Cloud, Bluenose
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
08-24-2014, 04:30 AM
Post: #8
RE: Replacement Rope for SOS
First thing, the address for Ashby's is the Old Hwy 41 address in my previous post. I did go there yesterday. Learned a lot from the ladies there! Most sewing thread (whether quilting, regular sowing, etc) is going to be some what limited in size due to the size of a needle hole and the need to get the thread through fabric. Gee now doesn't that make sense. The thickest thread they had was 0.01" but was 100% polyester. I really want to stick with 100% cotton to learn one material, not multiple. However, they suggested crochet thread as that can be thicker. So off to JoAnn's I went. Crochet thread looks like a good answer. Will probably require waxing as it is a little more fuzzy. Aunt Lydia's Crochet thread in black and natural would be good colors for rigging. 100% cotton. The size 10 is 0.012" inches and the size 3 is 0.018". So here what I have in my arsenal to make rope.

Coats 30wt, Black or Ecru - 0.005"
Aunt Lydia's Crochet thread size 10, Black and Natural - 0.012"
Aunt Lydia's Crochet thread size 3, Black and Natural - 0.018"

I'll try to have some sample rope (3 threads per rope) from all three black threads by our next meeting. BTW Aunt Lydia's is also a coats product. Not sure if that is bad or good but it is easy to find. That has to be worth something.

Cheers,
Chuck - Alpharetta, GA

Dry dock: Patrick Henry POF kit, HMS Elephant, 18th Century Longboat
Sailing the Ocean Blue: Flying Cloud, Bluenose
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
08-25-2014, 02:08 AM
Post: #9
RE: Replacement Rope for SOS
Good information. Also a couple very interesting articles in this months NRG Journal. In the sections on rigging they mention DMC Cordonnet cotton thread which comes in sizes from about .008" to .021" diameter. And another article mentioned a source for this thread http://www.knitting-warehouse.com.

I also have cotton thread form Gutermann, UNI-thread and Orvis. All kinds of possibilities. I'll also try to run some more samples to bring to our next AMS meeting.

Neil
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply 


Forum Jump:


User(s) browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)